Talk:Haven Trooper

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Ideas for added content: As much of Metal Gear Solid 4 is meant to produce a Psychological effect on the player, it may be a good idea to take some MGS4 situations and characters and put them under the Pysch lens.

Why would Liquid Ocelot prefer a special Army of women? Because most of the soldiers at the time were MEN, and all societies tend to treat women differently based upon the idea that women are either weaker, or meant to be protected, and this can give these clearly superior women a psychological advantage over their opponents, who more often than not are men. Men who likely haven't had time in the midst of the battlefield to relieve sexual frustrations, and the FROGS obviously have been altered to fit the high standards of feminine beauty. This, clearly gives them an edge, and can even give the player a feeling of discomfort as he's forced to fight for his life.

Impact on player: Their cries and yelps are obviously louder than the other enemies, and when they die, they burst violently into flames, and there is much to be sympathized with them, and most players only have experience of shooting men, and or only fighting one token female in any game. Thus, some players sensitive to harming women, will probably take the harder method of defeating them, by either avoiding them or by tranquilizing them. Furthermore, they are a subversion of expectations, as players are used to fighting generic figures that could either be men or women (there are still woman's restrooms in all bases of Metal Gear Solid series), and these are clearly and blatantly shown to be women.

This isn't really the place for a discussion of this caliber (you might be better off over at www.metalgearsolid.org, though judging by the average post over there you'd probably be wasting your time), but I may as well chip in my two cents.

While this is incredibly interesting, there are a few points I'm not sure I agree with personally. Mainly you're comment that the FROGS have "obviously... been altered to fit the high standards of feminine beauty." I think this typically depends on what you're view of beauty is, which (as the saying goes) is in the eye of the beholder. The odd masks that they wear detract from the beauty aspect in my opinion.

Unfortunately, judging from the average MGS fan (or, indeed, the average video gamer in general), Kojima's attempt at creating a type of enemy which the player may be hesitant to attack was most likely wasted. From where I'm sitting, it seems that most players don't really care what they're shooting at, as long as it is something to shoot. It's a shame, really. --Fantomas 22:16, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, unfortunately. I actually did not play MGS4 at all because I knew you had to fight mainly women a lot of the times. Though, I don't have a problem with fighting women as long as something like MGS1(Wolf), 2(Olga), 3(The Boss), MGSPO(Elisa/Ursula), etc where the the either Snake or Big Boss at least shows some compassion, empathy, regret, etc for having to fight them; and in those MGS games, the female characters at least sort of died in a "good way".

In MGS4, needless to say, I'm actually extremely sensitive at this type of this thing so I was sad that it seemed like the female characters were added as "fan service" rather than anything, I mean they didn't really get that "happy-death-ending" the other female characters in the MGS series had and they didn't really contribute or get involved much to the actual story at all, unlike the other female enemies in the previous MGS games.

I wish they would have handled the FROGs and the Beauty and the Beasts like how they handled the other female enemies in previous MGS series but they didn't. If (for example) they made Snake hesitate and even outright refuse to harm the women with lethal methods, that'd be great but atlas it seems whoever's idea was to add female enemies did it just for the "fan service" rather than anything else.

So yes, I am extremely sensitive... I hated MGS4. Glad to see others who show some concern about the lovely women of MGS4 and how and why they're being represented and used in the game. 98.119.148.247 05:42, September 17, 2009 (UTC)

I agree with that actualy.. Although like Fantomas said I don't think many people will see it that way, which is definitly a shame to put it lightly.

Personaly I know what you're getting at, because I'm like that myself. I can think of a few instances in games where i've felt discomfort at having to harm female characters.

I'm no Metal Gear expert or anything, I only own Metal Gear Solid (PS1) and Metal Gear Solid 2:Substance (Xbox). But after reading this I thought about how Snake tends to react when faced with female opponents. He definitly goes easier on them. He cleary feels guilty after killing Sniper Wolf, since he did it almoast completely out of rage for her shooting Meryl.

And then theres the fight with Olga on the tanker in MGS2, if that had been a male character do you think he would have had him throw his gear overboard? Maybe. Would he have hesitated to shoot when he went for his knife? No, he'd have shot him in the face instantly.

My thinking here is that Liquid Ocelot may have chosen to build an army purely made up of women in an attempt to deter snake, or at least make his job that much harder emotionally.--92.2.190.123 23:01, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

• In my opinion, the beauty thing - their form-fitting suits - are just fanservice, same with the Beauty's jumpsuits. Radioactive Zombie 23:32, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Does anybody know if FROG stands for something or has it been put in capitals for other reasons? --Bigbossash 16:49, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Anyone have any idea why their helmets have a 56 on them?--Bpudes77 01:59, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

any idea what connection,if any, this unit has to do with the "otselotovaya khvatka" from that one tv spot?