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Talk:Beauty and the Beast Unit

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I want to trim this page down a bit. We don't need all this info on each members background, as all that info should be on each of the individual character pages. Anyone with me? --Fantomas 18:10, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Erm. I distinctly remember using lethal force against Laughing Octopus outside of her suit - when Snake checks her pulse, she isn't breathing. With non-lethal force, she is, so not sure if Drebin's comment about not surviving outside the suits applies. Radioactive Zombie 06:40, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Wait, I thought one of the people said that the Beauties end up suffering a similar fate to the FROGs and Python if defeated lethally. Besides, I think the lasting a few minutes doesn't apply anyways. I mean, if they truly were to last for a few minutes, don't you think they'd make the fight against their human forms... you know... actually HAVE a time limit, just to emphasize this fact (Meaning, kill her with a gun, a grenade, a lethal weapon, she burns, don't touch her from the start of the battle to the end of the time limit, they burn anyways, defeat her non-lethally, they might have a chance at survival.). Even IF what he said was true, he was probably meaning their fragile minds can't cope being outside for more than a few minutes (Then again, they did seem to be quelled of their insanity once Snake ripped them out of the suits, so to speak. Drebrin even speculated that this is probably what Ocelot meant by facing snake would cure them.)
Yeah, I'm thinking the few minutes part Drebin was talking about only applies when you do nothing and dodge their seductive yet lethal advances and they die after the time in the white world runs out. So maybe they DO survive like Python can if you stun kill them...you just can't bring them over to your side. That does bring up an interesting concept of what the Beuties atributes would be like as playable characters. Laughing Beauty would excell in SMGs, Raging would excell in heavy weapons, Crying would be good with sniper rifles (partly because the Railgun had the sniping function to it), and Screeming would...well I'm not sure what catagory she'd specialize in. Maybe CQC since she always threw sickle knives at you and tried to whack you with some kind of explosive baton...thing? Maybe traps since her puppets fell under the same catagoy as magazines...no, then the mines and detonated bombs would be in that catagory too. Let's just say CQC! It'd actually be kind of funny if Drebin decided to get Otacon to help play a trick on Snake by getting all the beauties suprise him one morning with a sneak-attack of embraces as he wakes up, and he'd be wincing and cringing at first until he realizes his life bar isn't being drained, and then he says "Why am I not feeling any savere burning sensation?" Then Drebin walks in and says, "Because you cured them Snake. Since you only knocked them out, after they shed their suits, they where able to reawaken from the nightmare that kept them insane as long as they were. Now they can no longer physically force their pain on anyone else like they tried with you." Then Laughing Beauty would say, "This is just our way of saying 'thank you' Snake." then Otacon walks in and jokingly says "Well at least we know it's not because he's gay or anything." As Snake scowls at them both, Sunny comes in, laughs and says "I've just got to take a picture of this!" Then Snake yells "What? You got Sunny in on this too!?" I don't know, I just wish they did something more to mesh the beauties into the storyline if you knocked them out instead of killing them and that giving them a second chance in life wouldn't be in vain.
I think Drebin mentioned that the whole surviving out of the suits for a few minutes was a rumor, which means that it really can't be confirmed that they are going to inevitably die regardless of what Snake does. Now, I don't particularly care one way or another about whether they survived or not, just what is fact. I was just saying that, since it's a rumor as Drebin said, we really shouldn't say with absolute certainty that they are going to die. Weedle McHairybug 15:07, January 22, 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, Drebin says "word going round". I feel they wouldn't have bothered including it if they didn't want us to specifically think about that as a possibility... --Fantomas 15:13, January 22, 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, I know it's a possibility, but that didn't mean that we have to assume that it must be what happens. That's my main arguement about it. That's also why I changed their fates back to unknown. I mean, if it's only a rumor, we really shouldn't treat death as a confirmed fact, especially seeing how it's only a possibility and not actually confirmed. Weedle McHairybug 15:17, January 22, 2010 (UTC)
I see where you're coming from. It's weird but it wasn't until you pointed out it was a rumor that I noticed the "word going 'round is..." line from Drebin. Odd stuff. --Fantomas 15:21, January 22, 2010 (UTC)

They do die. If the player doesn't shoot them after several minutes, they automatically collapse and die. Their clothes then burn to a crisp. And Snake is always seen with a pistol, not a tranquilizer gun. Even Drebin's and Snake's dialogue in the codec conversations suggest that they die. For example, after the Raging Raven battle, Snake asks Drebin how old "was" she instead of how old "is" she. And during an optional codec conversation after the Crying Wolf battle, Snake tells Otacon that the wolfs are now guarding her "grave". Knocking them out only means they die off-screen. --70.126.139.90 19:16, March 3, 2010 (UTC)

True, although you can refer to someone in the past tense while they're still alive, and Snake may have meant that when he was fighting her just a minute ago, and by the "grave" on Shadow Moses Snake was talking about, this could've meant that he was refering to the other Wolf Otacon cared about (i.e. Sniper Wolf). So maybe...ah fuck it! IT'S JUST TOO DAMN CONFUSING!!! This is probably yet another one of Kojima's deliberate attempts to confuse the fans just like he did in the past games, and we probably won't know for certain until MGS: Rising. Let's just say you're right and keep the subject closed already!

Does anyone notice that snake follows the naming conventions of the B and B's during mgs4?Like,

Emotion/Cobra member: "Old"/ "The End" (the fact that snake starts with a Mosin Nagant in multiplayer is also interesting.)

Animal/FOXHOUND member/Fighting style:"Snake"/"Liquid Snake"/"CQC"/"Metal Gear Rex"

Sons of Liberty member's weapons:Olga Gurlukavich/Operator pistol/Knife/Assault rifle/Grenades.

Just thought this was an interesting parallel between Old Snake and the enemies he's fighting.204.211.185.107 16:57, June 4, 2010 (UTC)

Well, at the very least, Raging Raven and Crying Wolf are definitely dead. Laughing Octopus is the only one heard breathing if the player knocks her out. She might have died afterwards off-screen due to Drebin's comment about them dying after six minutes when they are out of their suits. Snake asked Drebin how old "was" Raven instead of how old "is" Raven. I admit that I'm not an expert at grammar but I'm pretty sure that the word "was" refers to things that happened before, not right now. The word "is" refers to things that are happening right now. Hence, Raven "is" about 20 if she is alive. If she's dead, then she "was" about 20.
Anyway, in a codec conversation after the fight with Crying Wolf, Snake tells Otacon that wolfs are now guarding the "grave" of Crying Wolf. It's definitely not Sniper Wolf's grave. Nastasha Romanenko's novel confirmed that her body was recovered after the uprising. Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure that graves are meant for dead people.
As for Mantis, I assume she's dead, as she isn't seen while Johnny and Meryl are fighting the FROGS. I doubt she would still be asleep during that massacre.--Timerider 19:10, July 6, 2010 (UTC)
Regardless, their deaths were never canonically confirmed, not even in the database. The rumor from Drebin and, as a result, Snake's dialogue, may imply so, but it can't really be considered definitive proof. Unless another source confirms it, their fates should really be considered as unknown (though likely death). Also, Mantis was not simply asleep, she was unconscious. Let's leave it ambiguous, like the game itself did. It was never meant to be known for sure. Don't really want to argue about it again, so that's all I'll say on it for now. --Bluerock 20:52, July 6, 2010 (UTC)
LOL, sure it wasn't meant to be known for sure. You go ahead and tell yourself that if it makes you feel better. --Timerider 20:27, July 19, 2010 (UTC)
It clearly wasn't meant to be known, just like Python and Raikov. Stop trying to make it a personal issue, Timerider-Donald. --Bluerock 20:32, July 19, 2010 (UTC)
HA HA, you're an imbecile. --Timerider 20:37, July 19, 2010 (UTC)
How predictable of you. They are never shown to die. You can argue all you want about them dying off screen, but we never see it, so it isn't confirmed and can't be stated as fact. Accept it. This argument is over, buddy. Enjoy your further trolling attempts. --Bluerock 20:50, July 19, 2010 (UTC)
How predictable of you to believe that graves are for living human beings and that a living human being "was" a certain age instead of "is" a certain age. That's right. Ignore the dialogue that shows that their deaths is canon, You're even more dense and stubborn than I thought. Enjoy living in your delusions about the four women living happily ever after. And don't call me buddy. I'm not your buddy. --Timerider 21:01, July 19, 2010 (UTC)
Sorry for reopening the debate, but I noticed something that really needs to be addressed:
The anon/Timerider/Donald claimed that one of the proofs that the Beauty and the Beast Unit members had died was that Solid Snake said the word "was" in reference to Raging Raven in regards to her age, but I noticed that Naked Snake/Big Boss also used "was" in reference to the radio guy that he used the stun rod on when interrogating him in Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker ("The radioman was wearing one [a film badge]. And whoever he was talking to called the cargo 'Spears.'"), even though its made pretty clear that the stun rod doesn't kill people (its maximum voltage, 1,500,000 watts, is only strong enough to knock a person out cold, not kill them, and he didn't even have any grievous injuries other than possibly being punched into a cardboard box full of radiation badges), and thus, he wasn't dead, so I really think we need a lot more information about their fate besides choice of words. Weedle McHairybug 17:16, September 29, 2011 (UTC)

The Trailer Edit

I remembered when I watch the first B&B trailer, the soldiers they wipe out looked more like the PMC or the Marines than the Middle East millitants. are there any change in the background of the game?


PS I hope I can see the first B7B trailer to check it again but I can't get on to Youtube (yeah, blocked in China). Could someone find me a non-Youtube one?Teslashark 14:58, October 11, 2010 (UTC)

Reopen the topic Edit

Hi, I found some info about the Beauty and the Beast Unit, and I really need the page reopened to add it in. Weedle McHairybug 01:49, October 29, 2010 (UTC)

Look, guys, this is no joke. This article really needs to be reopened. Sigh, anyone here besides Fantomas who has the authority to unlock pages, because it's unlikely he's coming back? Weedle McHairybug 13:14, March 15, 2011 (UTC)

I wish I could (unfortunately, I don't have the power). I have been wanting to make some minor edits for a while. Do anybody know what happened to Fantomas? Omega Fighter 16:58, March 15, 2011 (UTC)

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