Image of Zero, MGS3
Why was the image of Zero from MGS3 removed? Kennedy 3421 12:48, July 22, 2010 (UTC)
Could we have a cutscene image of him rather than that image of him for the manual. Kennedy 3421 04:24, August 20, 2010 (UTC)Kennedy 3421
- Uh, you already added a cutscene image of him from MGS3. --Bluerock 07:06, August 20, 2010 (UTC)
- I meant for his profile box instead, Does not really matter though.
- Images from cutscenes are more suited for accompanying the text within an article, to highlight certain events/aspects of that character. The profile pic should be as simple a depiction as possible, without any surrounding context (though sometimes this is not possible if an appropriate image doesn't exist, e.g. DOD official, DCI, Granin). These things help to improve the article's presentation. --Bluerock 14:52, August 20, 2010 (UTC)
- Ok thats fair enough. Kennedy 3421 10:13, August 21, 2010 (UTC)Kennedy 3421
- I meant for his profile box instead, Does not really matter though.
Zero = Null?
Could Major Zero be the "man with the same codename as NULL" mentioned in Metal Gear Solid Portable Ops?
- Yes. I'm of the opinion that it's pretty much him, no question. I haven't added it to his Wiki page yet though. I've been waiting for more hard evidence. --Fantomas 11:23, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
We'll probably get confirmation from MGS4, but for now I guess it is pretty safe to assume that it's referring to him... We could list it in the actual article for now as an unverified theory.Guitaroooman 08:37, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
I think that we could list Zero as alive instead of deceased since the game takes place in the future.--220.127.116.11 01:27, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
- No, we don't do things like that. We act as though the writings on our wiki are set just after the latest game in the series. --Fantomas 11:43, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
- Oh, okay. :)--18.104.22.168 19:34, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but where does it say that Major Zero is in a PVC (Persisent Vegitative State)? The reason I say is because, again I'm not a medical expert so correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that in a PVC one doesn't need a life-support system, and therefore Zero cannot possibly be in a PVC. You do need to be fed of course, but turning off a machine that does that wouldn't kill Zero straight away, he would have to starve to death first. Chaos91 16:22, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
wasn't zero the guy who wanted to kill the boss, i think gene refers "man with the same codename as NULL" as being the cunning strategist who killed the boss.
- No, it wasn't Zero, that was the CIA director (MGS4 kinda confirmed that.).
- Actually, now that I think about it, was the "man with the same codename as NULL" supposed to be Zero? I mean, right after Gene realized before getting an answer as to who was helping Ocelot, he also asked if he realizes that he's betraying his boss by this action. Later, Ocelot encounters his "Boss" and basically betrays him by assassinating him and stealing the Philosophers Briefcase. When he received the call from Major Zero, he only said that he was quitting, which wouldn't mean betrayal (Betrayal is usually commiting an action that harms the person that you work with, and it has to be pre-meditive, and a major amount of hurt, like, you know, sending your boss to jail for a crime he masterminded, arranging for your boss to be killed, defecting to another country, etc, etc.)
The "man with the same codename as Null" is definetly Zero, because if you remember Null is a lost number, a number even less then one, which means only one thing, Zero. This whole thing was a plan to get the rest of the Legacy, Zero helped Gene get Metal Gear to use it against the Soviet Union according Cunningham's plan, but he knew Gene would learn about Cunningham's plan and would then use Metal Gear against the U.S that way the CIA director would try to hide the Legacy in a bunker then Ocelot would kill him and steal the Legacy and they used Big Boss, aka Naked Snake, to destroy Metal Gear to stop the nuclear launch. That way they would get the Legacy without a nuclear explosion.
Zero did not kill the Boss, He was a friend of her and they knew each other from SAS, plus he just as much as Big Boss was shocked that she defected. It was the director of the CIA Hot Coldman (Not the one who Big Boss refused to shake hands with_, who was the man behind the death of her. Coldman feared her because of her views and possibly because she is a woman. Coldman is the cunning strategist.
Is it really "Ashes To Ashes" you're all thinking of? I would've thought "Space Oddity" would make more sense... JaffaCakeLover 21:16, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
- Well, Space Oddity, Ashes to Ashes and Hallo Spaceboy all feature the character. Maybe we should list all three? --Fantomas 23:01, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
- Not to mention that Naked Snake says, "Can you hear me, Major Tom?" during one of the early calls. That is an exact lyric from Space Oddity. --pinkkfloydd
Hey, what's up with the page?
I tried to edit the page to add the SIS into his affiliations, and it ended up becoming messed up. Weedle McHairybug 23:59, November 10, 2009 (UTC)
- We're not sure why the page keeps doing this, but I'm assuming it has something to do with Wikia's "new" editor. Did you just want to add SIS to his affiliations? --Fantomas 00:03, November 11, 2009 (UTC)
- Yeah, I did. Well, technically, it was more like MI6, since that was the more specific branch he answered to, but still the same thing. Weedle McHairybug 00:06, November 11, 2009 (UTC)
Why kill Zero?
Not sure if I missed something in MGS4, but why exactly was it necessary for Zero to die? At this point in time, the Patriot's were completely run by the AIs, with no direction or input from Zero. I doubt he could actually reform the Patriots, or be any kind of threat, in his current condition. Did Big Boss/EVA/Ocelot just wanna get even with him? --Bluerock 22:39, February 11, 2010 (UTC)
That wasn't his reason for doing so though. --Bluerock 22:57, February 11, 2010 (UTC)
Here's the speech. I guess Zero was a symbol or something. So long as he lived, The Patriots could return. You figure it out.
Big Boss: Everything has its beginning. But doesn't start at "one." It starts long before that, in chaos. The world is born... From zero. The moment zero becomes one is the moment the world springs to life. One becomes two, two becomes ten, ten becomes 100. Taking it all back to one solves nothing. So long as zero remains, one will eventually grow to 100 again. And so our goal was to erase Zero. Even the mighty Patriots began with a single man. That one man's desires grew huge, bloated; absorbed technology; began to manipulate the economy. We realized too late that we had created a beast. We had helped turn Zero into 100. His sin... was ours. And for that reason, I'm taking it upon myself to send Zero... back to nothing. 22.214.171.124 23:02, February 11, 2010 (UTC)
Guess we'll never know, it just seemed kinda pointless to kill him, other than to wrap up loose ends of the plot. --Bluerock 23:06, February 11, 2010 (UTC)
By the way, good to see you've calmed down a bit. Doubt it'll last long though--Bluerock 23:08, February 11, 2010 (UTC)
Very cute. Biohazard22 12:10, February 12, 2010 (UTC)
It was clearly not the right thing for Big Boss to do but then again, Zero was in a vegetive state and could not even speak or think like a human being, he was practically dead already plus he was very old in age . So maybe Big Boss wanted to put him out of his misery Kennedy 3421 12:48, July 22, 2010 (UTC)Kennedy 3421
where does it say his name is David Oh?--Soul reaper 09:54, April 20, 2010 (UTC)
- It's kinda stated in the article itself, but it is in the Metal Gear Solid 4 Database. Personally, I have difficulty interpreting it as canon due to certain... flaws with it (most notably Solidus erasing Raiden's memories of his being a child soldier.). Weedle McHairybug 09:56, April 20, 2010 (UTC)
- I know what you mean about the Database, I don't really know whether to believe alot of the stuff it says--Soul reaper 10:13, April 20, 2010 (UTC)
- The leaked document of the cast that surfaced before MGS3 came out also stated his real name was David Oh. This document turned out to be right on all the character information so I think it's safe to say that this was Kojima's desire versus something someone else
- came up with after MGS4. [Talk] 01:28, July 5, 2010 (UTC)
About James Bond films...
There was a mention that Zero is fan of James Bond films. Funny though, Dr. No and From Russia With Love (both released before operation Snake Eater) movies doesn't have gun shaped like a pen. First gun shaped like a pen was in Moonraker (1979) and that pen was CIAs invention. First Qs gun pen is in non- EON film Never Say Never Again (1983). Second gun pen was in Golden Eye (1995). So anyway, my point was that during radio conversation where Zero mentions that they should make gun shaped like a pen for Snake during operation Snake Eater, James Bond movies haven't introducted those things yet. That means Zero had read James Bond novels before operation Snake Eater. That means Zero must be a fan of James Bond novels too. Does anyone get my point?Dr.Ed Argon 09:17, May 24, 2011 (UTC)
- If I recall correctly, there are no pen devices in the novels; that was a movie idea. Zero is more likely referring to the movie series as a whole, for the sake of humor, even though it is anachronistic for the game's setting. Even so, gadgets were introduced in FRWL (the attache case), so he could just be envisioning the concept of a gun disguised as an ordinary object. Also, being in the secret service, Zero may already have knowledge of similar real-life gadgets. --Bluerock 12:18, May 24, 2011 (UTC)
Zero in Ground Zeroes trailer?
I seriously doubt it's really him as the article speculates. We'd have seen the burn scars on the old Zero seen at the end of MGS4, and Konami isn't usually in the habit of retconning something like this unless absolutely necessary. Soma K. (talk) 03:29, September 16, 2012 (UTC)
Anyone else find it funny that an Englishman who set out to control the world through espionage and information control was born in the same year that the precursor to the British SIS (more commonly known as MI6) was founded? Terminator-HIX
UK Konami Blog for PO
According to https://uk.games.konami-europe.com/posts/Metal-Gear-Solid-Portable-Ops, Zero "conducted everything from Operation Snake Eater to Gene's manipulation to retrieve the Legacy."
Think this could confirm Zero being our deviously cunning guy in MPO?
126.96.36.199 22:39, September 12, 2014 (UTC)
- As much as I appreciate that they remembered and actually acknowledged Portable Ops' canonicity, we decided a long time ago that this guy cannot be trusted with making analyses of the games, so no. That being said, we could make a note of that on the Deviously Cunning Strategist's page's behind the scenes section. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 22:44, September 12, 2014 (UTC)
- I'm against that. That makes no sense. EVA confirmed Zero created the Patriots to carry on what he thought was The Boss' will. Having her killed would make no sense. --188.8.131.52 22:56, September 12, 2014 (UTC)
- If you were talking to me, I wasn't saying that we should say Zero did indeed have her killed, just briefly mention that the Portable Ops summary on Konami Europe stated such was the case, maybe use erroneous in there as well. I do agree with you that it makes little sense for Zero to have The Boss killed and then have the Patriots be used to follow The Boss's will (besides, even Portable Ops strongly implied at the time that the CIA Director was the guy responsible for having The Boss killed, due to Ocelot's comment about taking back "what [the DCI] stole from [Ocelot and Zero]" shortly before shooting him). Weedle McHairybug (talk) 23:11, September 12, 2014 (UTC)
- It would, actually, if Zero was already trying to make her will a reality by planning to build the Patriots with the DCI. Gene says that The Boss willingly gave her life to help a greater cause (presumably the replacing the Philosophers with the Patriots), in a similar manner to what the masses should do for Gene's greater cause (replacing the Philosophers with himself). That the DCI then kept the funds for himself and such would be seen by Zero as making her death and her will of no account, so he would take it on himself to carry it on. (What the DCI "stole" could be referring to the Legacy, at least in part.) Recruiting Snake into the FOX Unit could possibly have been his way of training her replacement from the beginning. I'm curious though... what has this blog author gotten wrong in the past so that he can't be trusted? (Though Zero has always fit PO's dialog best, IMO.)
- 184.108.40.206 23:15, September 12, 2014 (UTC)
- Well, for starters, the author implied in the first full-depth timeline blog article on Konami Europe that Kennedy lost the trust of the Philosophers for even conducting the Bay of Pigs Invasion, when it was actually more that he lost their trust for dithering and not giving fire support when they needed it. Plus, as one person pointed out, (the third post of this topic in fact) the guy was just a customer service guy and not actually involved in the day to day affairs of the Metal Gear franchise.
- And while you do have somewhat of a point, it was pretty clear Ocelot wasn't referring to the Legacy at all when he mentioned the DCI "stole" something from him, especially when MGS3's post-credits call made clear that not only did Ocelot know the Legacy was going to the DCI, he actually arranged for it to happen and even implied that he agreed with the DCI on it. It also doesn't help that Zero specifically mentioned he was very surprised that The Boss would actually defect to the Soviet Union, explicitly stating he trusted her far more than even his own family in one of the radio calls early into Operation Snake Eater. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 00:17, September 13, 2014 (UTC)
- I'm sure they didn't let him write all that up just based on his playthroughs, regardless of his actual job. It's kinda fallacious to use his being customer service as an argument against his articles.
- I agree the Bay of Pigs thing doesn't fit, but that's fairly minor really. You could even see it as a sort of telescoping- the event in general was a fiasco, and Kennedy was ultimately responsible for it in the first place by approving it to begin with.
- What I mean by the DCI "stole" the Legacy isn't that the DCI simply has it- it's that he didn't *put it to use* like he said he would. Like the Database said, instead of using it to revive the Philosophers, he kept it for himself and falsely reported the mission a failure.
- If he and Zero had an arrangement to revive the Philosophers as the Patriots, and then betrayed Zero, I think that'd be a good reason for Zero to be angry about how the CIA had treated The Boss's sacrifice and kept her dream from becoming a reality.
- Pretty much everything about Zero in MPO suggests he's the one, apart from the fact that they reused Ocelot's art.
- As for his actions in MGS3, you realize Zero has the ability to lie and manipulate, right? If he's the strategist, you don't think he's actually going to tell Big Boss of this or act like he knows about it during MGS3's radio calls do you? Origenes7 (talk) 00:49, September 13, 2014 (UTC)
- Maybe, but then again, I strongly doubt that he'd have The Boss killed and then create an organization dedicated to her beliefs almost like a religion. That's not exactly a realistic motive. Now, if The Boss orchestrated her death and told Zero to follow the script to ensure her death, that's one thing, though even then, she'd be the DCS, not Zero. And you do realize Ocelot doesn't even know Zero was the one who backed him, right? Besides, EVA also explicitly confirmed that the CIA had The Boss killed for fear of her charisma in her history lecture to Solid Snake in MGS4, even though she knew full well that, at the very least, the real reason The Boss was killed had to do with Volgin basically screwing up her mission by firing the Davy Crockett at the Sokolov Design Bureau with it being implied that they did not take Volgin's doing that into account. And it's implied she doesn't even know the half of it, in other words, fear for her charisma due to defecting would not have been the motive at all.
- And fallacious or not, you can thank anon 96 for ensuring that doesn't qualify as a source. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 01:10, September 13, 2014 (UTC)
- It wouldn't be much different than Zero wanting to take down Big Boss, then keep his body alive to be some sort of "Messiah." Death creates martyrs, and you can bet someone like Zero would use this to create a martyr as an excuse to form an organization like the Patriots. That much isn't unrealistic at all. That's not to say he didn't care for her, or wouldn't get angry that the CIA would let her die without making the world she wanted a reality.
- Perhaps The Boss was following Zero's script to ensure this would happen. It would explain a lot about why she felt getting the Legacy back to the US would reunite the Philosophers.
- Ocelot didn't know Zero was feeding him info during the SH Incident... so what? He knows that a guy good at manipulation is planning to create the Patriots and carry on The Boss's will. I don't see how that's a problem to anything.
- EVA's story about charisma isn't necessarily related to the strategist thing at all. In MGS3, Zero mentions that the CIA is eager to get rid of her because they fear her charisma could lead to others defecting to the USSR to follow her lead. When Gene mentions the strategist, he says this strategist had a plan that The Boss gave her life for. Getting rid of her charisma hardly qualifies to be "the cause" Gene refers to. 220.127.116.11 01:47, September 13, 2014 (UTC)
- The problem with your last point is that EVA specifically debunked that claim in her debriefing to Naked Snake, stating that the US had to kill her, not because they fear her charisma would lead to defections by unsavory members following her example (heck, they knew all along that The Boss was never actually defecting to the Soviet Union), but because Volgin basically screwed up her mission by firing a Davy Shell crocket at the Sokolov Research Facility, in a move that EVA inferred was completely unplanned and unanticipatible. And BTW, Coldman specifically took credit for orchestrating the events of Operation Snake Eater and possibly even the Virtuous Mission, and he has a huge axe to grind against The Boss as well and even implied that her death was instrumental in his vision of AIs deciding nuclear strategy. Heck, it is also strongly implied that his involvement in OSE IS the reason why he was demoted and then effectively exiled to Central America (which BTW, it was implied that the debriefing EVA fed Snake was actually a cover story for the full truth behind the op even in Peace Walker). If anyone was closer to being the DCS, it was Coldman, as he has the motive and the actual skill to take over, not to mention being in the know about OSE and presumably VM as well.
- And it was stated that Zero placed Big Boss in a coma simply because he couldn't afford to lose him again. Heck, he even allowed Big Boss to remain tarnished as a war criminal and even went as far as to inter Big Boss at Arlington specifically to keep up the illusion that he was in fact dead. Not to mention the only time Big Boss became even positively received after the events of Outer Heaven by the world was after the AIs took over Zero's operations of the Patriots, and it was strongly implied they did so against Zero's will. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 02:16, September 13, 2014 (UTC)
- I feel this may be getting too long for this page. Nevertheless-
- What EVA said to Big Boss isn't that relevant. She was talking to Solid Snake, and was just giving him a quick reason. What Zero said wasn't a complete falsehood- the CIA pretty much feared anyone that could potentially charm others into turning against America. E.g. They trained Python to take down Big Boss, too, after he became the new owner of the Boss moniker.
- Yes, I played PW too, and no, Coldman isn't the strategist. I've discussed this before with you, and why it doesn't make sense for him or his plan. We'll see when they update the PW section of the blog, I guess, but I think you're reading too much into his statement. Coldman was too much of a non-person in the end to be that important. The strategist had a plan as early as 1964. I can almost guarantee that it wasn't to do with AI weapons.
- I think you missed my point about Zero and Big Boss's body. EVA specifically stated that he kept him alive because he wanted "to create a Messiah. A legend that would never die." That's a clue to his mindset right there- he's willing to take someone down and then use them for his own purposes. He did it with Big Boss, he could just as easily be willing to do it to The Boss. Really, the writing in PO points directly at Zero. Kojima may be ignoring it as a plot point now, but theories that try to distinguish the strategist from the "man with the same codename as Null" mostly seem like bad script chopping based on the erroneous assumption that because Zero idolized The Boss he wouldn't have set her up. I'm 99.9% certain that had it not been said Zero started the Patriots to honor her, it wouldn't have been a question. Origenes7 (talk) 02:39, September 13, 2014 (UTC)
- No, if she was going to give him a quick reason, she would have simply said The Boss was killed because her mission got screwed up by outside factors and left it at that.
- As far as your point about Coldman, he specifically stated he planned "the whole thing" regarding OSE and possibly the VM when asked, not to mention he was already proven to hate The Boss, and he specifically attributed his plan for machines to be the new heroes to The Boss's death, citing that the age of heroes is over with The Boss's death and her "bankrupt beliefs" buried with her. And he's already been proven to be insane enough to risk nuclear Armageddon just to ensure his dream came true.
- Yeah, yet the Sons of Big Boss's actions weren't completely controlled by the Patriots, and they were motivated by Big Boss, and even the Sons of Liberty, the only terrorist group they actually had total control over (meaning, none knew they were manipulated by them) basically were intending to fight off the Patriots, not fulfill their wishes, with Solidus modeling himself after Big Boss specifically to fight against them. Not to mention, in every official record (really, call Nastasha Romanenko and the Colonel in their respective games), it was made pretty clear Big Boss was viewed as a war criminal, and the only time that actually seemed to change was when the Pentagon, via Patriot influence, basically released documentation on Big Boss's time in the CIA and especially his knowledge of Close Quarters Combat, and even then, Big Boss basically implies that this was actually going against what Zero had in mind when the AIs did that and the War Economy.
- And BTW, people might rewrite history to make it seem as though they actually idolized the person and their ideals after killing them, but that's after killing them, and they don't try to kill them specifically to make them a martyr. Even with Che Guevara, whom had some evidence that Fidel Castro had some involvement in his dying at Age 39, basically was arranged to be killed by Castro and the Soviets largely because they didn't like Che at all, and only saw his value in propaganda purposes (and even that was only done to effectively save Communism when it was on a decline in the late 1960s, so his usage was cynical at best). Just ask Ion Mihai Pacepa, he'll tell you outright, he even wrote an article explaining this. In other words, someone who is that fanboyish to someone like The Boss would not dare try to harm them, not even to spread an agenda. That's why Zero doesn't fit. And besides, considering Big Boss valued The Boss as being his mother, don't you think he would have reasons to go against Zero BESIDES fundamental disagreements in how to carry her will, like, I don't know, Zero selling her out? Weedle McHairybug (talk) 11:52, September 13, 2014 (UTC)
- Last reply on this, then I'm done.
- Apparently, the person who actually wrote the game disagrees with you on what EVA would tell Solid Snake.
- Again, you're just repeating what you already said about Coldman. You're assuming something into his line that isn't there.
- He only mentions The Boss's death in relation to the AIs to show that human heroes are no longer needed. He didn't like her, but that doesn't mean he had anything to do with setting her up from the get-go.
- The rest is a lot of fluff, honestly.
- Do dead heroes become martyrs? Yes.
- Did The Boss become a martyr to the Patriots? Yes.
- Did Gene say The Boss gave her life to help "the cause" of someone with a "greater will"? Yes.
- That you don't know of anyone setting someone up to be killed to become a martyr in real life is utterly irrelevant to a video game.
- As regards Big Boss, how do you even know he ever figured out Zero was the guy?
- 18.104.22.168 14:58, September 13, 2014 (UTC)
- I don't recall Kojima actually saying that EVA just gave Solid Snake a quick explanation, either, anyways.
- And I'm not "assuming" anything. He made it very clear in his speech to Big Boss, not to mention made very clear he had apparently been fired from being a director in the CIA in the past, and that he had been exiled for reasons pertaining to knowledge that was too costly to reveal and he was not willing to shut up about it. And he specifically referred to The Boss's beliefs as "bankrupt" just before stating they were buried with her, meaning he didn't value her beliefs even when she was alive.
- Also, the Patriots tried to preach her views. That DOESN'T mean they set her up to die. Heck, if anything, there were more hints at the DCI being the guy instead of Zero, especially considering how Ocelot, despite having previously agreed to the mission, despite agreeing to the Philosopher's Legacy being given to him, specifically told him that he was taking back what the DCI stole from them. And Gene could also just as easily have been referring to the Philosophers, as well. Heck, even the CIA Director or even Coldman.
- And I actually do know someone being set up to become a martyr in real life, actually. His name was Jesus Christ, died for our sins as his Father had pre-arranged. However, the person who set his son up was omnipotent and omniscient, not to mention our creator. And even the actual human effectively responsible for Jesus's crucifixion largely did it for money and not out of knowledge of some goal.
- As far as Big Boss figuring out Zero was the guy, think about it: Big Boss reacted to Gene's story in such a way that indicated he fully intended to kill the guy who set The Boss up, and even after Gene was killed, it was implied that he still was disturbed at the revelation. He'd eventually put two-and-two together regarding Zero possibly having set her up during his time with the Patriots, and then try to attack him to avenge The Boss. Do you honestly expect Big Boss to not put two-and-two together especially after Zero's handling of the Patriots? Even the most careful of people still get suspicions placed on them if they are doing things that are not what someone they claim to respect would have wanted. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 15:17, September 13, 2014 (UTC)